Hi all, I need some advice and expertise from the community.I have done a fair bit of research on Interams version of the Walther PPK/S, and feel like I have a fair understanding of them except for how to determine if it is a model that was imported or if it was one of the ones produced and assembled in America. I have the opportunity to buy one, and while it's not a big deal if it's an American made one I am curious to know before I purchase it. The photo that's attached isn't the gun in question but all the markings on this one are the same as the other PPK/S.
View QuoteWell there is some irony there, as you are right not to trust the stamp, and you've more or less hit the nail on the head.Walther's original factory was located in Zella-Mehlis. However when the Soviets invaded Germany toward the ned of WWII, Walther moved the tooling west and established a new factory in Ulm Germany. Unfortunately for Walther, after WWII, the Allied powers forbade any manufacture of weapons in Germany until the restrictions were finally lifted on May 5, 1955. As a result, in 1952, Walther licensed production of the PP series (PP and PPK) pistols to a French company, Manufacture de Machines du Haut-Rhin, also known as Manurhin.
This French company continued to manufacture the PP series until 1989, using steel forgings shipped from Walther in Germany, but milled, polished, roll marked, finished, inspected and proofed by Manuhrin in France.However when Germany was again able to start making small arms, Manurhin continued making the PP series pistols, but they also started sending complete pistols to Walther in Ulm Germany. However the slides on thee were left soft, unroll marked and in the white.
Walther Ppk S Serial Number Lookup
Once Walther received these pistols, they roll marked the slides, hardened the slides through an induction process, and then blued them. These Walther roll marked and finished slides were then assembled on the Manurhin produced and finished frames and then sold as German Walthers. West German law allowed them to be sold as German made pistols as they were roll marked, assembled and proofed in Germany.Some folks argue that the German Walthers are superior due to the final assembly and inspection in Germany, but on the other hand no one ever says anything bad about the quality of the Manuhrin pistols. Given the induction hardening and differences in polish and the effects each have on the bluing, the Walther slides don't exactly match the finish on the Manuhrin frames, and it's a pretty good indicator even if you have not yet dated the weapon based on a serial number.In 1984, Walther started making entire PPK pistols in 7.65mm in West Germany, and by 1986 they were making the PP, PPK & PPK/S in both 7.65 & 9mmK.
PPK The most common variant is the Walther PPK, a smaller version of the PP with a shorter, barrel and frame, and reduced magazine capacity. A new, two-piece wrap-around grip panel construction was used to conceal the exposed back strap. The smaller size made it more concealable than the original PP and hence better suited to plainclothes or work. It was released in 1930.' PPK' is an abbreviation for Polizeipistole Kriminalmodell (police pistol - detective model). While it's often thought to be ' kurz' (German: short) referring to the police pistol with shorter barrel and frame, the manufacturer's selection of the name 'Kriminal' appears in early original advertising brochures from Walther and the 1937 GECO German catalog.committed suicide with his PPK (/7.65mm) in the in. Georg iggers historiography in the twentieth century pdf.
South Korean dictator was shot and killed by, using the Walther PPK. The Walther PPK pistol is famous as fictional secret agent 's gun in many of the and: 's choice of the Walther PPK directly influenced its popularity and its notoriety.
Fleming had given Bond a.25 pistol in early novels, but switched to the PPK in Dr. No on the advice of firearms expert, though the actual guns carried by Bond and Felix Leiter in the film were, in fact, Walther PPs.Actor was presented with a gold plated one with ivory handgrips.Singer owned a silver-finish PPK, inscribed 'TCB' ('taking care of business'). PPK/S The PPK/S was developed following the enactment of the (GCA68) in the United States, the pistol's largest market. One of the provisions of GCA68 banned the importation of pistols and revolvers not meeting certain requirements of length, weight, and other 'sporting' features into the United States. The PPK failed the 'Import Points' test of the GCA68 by a single point.
Walther addressed this situation by combining the PP's frame with the PPK's barrel and slide to create a pistol that weighed slightly more than the PPK. The additional ounce or two of weight of the PPK/S compared to the PPK was sufficient to provide the extra needed import points.Because United States law allowed domestic production (as opposed to importation) of the PPK, manufacture began under license in the U.S. In 1983; this version was distributed. The version currently manufactured by in has been modified (by Smith & Wesson) by incorporating a longer (S&W calls it 'extended beaver tail'), better protecting the shooter from, i.e., the rearward-traveling slide's pinching the web between the index finger and thumb of the firing hand, which could be a problem with the original design for people with larger hands or an improper grip, especially when using 'hotter' cartridge loads. The PPK/S is made of.The PPK/S differs from the PPK as follows:. Overall height: 104 mm (4.1 in) vs.
100 mm (3.9 in). Weight: the PPK/S weighs 51 g (1.8 oz) more than the PPK. The PPK/S magazine holds one additional round, in both calibers.The PPK/S and the PPK are offered in the following calibers: (with capacities of 8 for PPK/S and 7 for PPK); or (PPK/S: 7; PPK: 6). The PPK/S is also offered in with capacity of 10 rounds.PPK-L. A Walther PPK-L manufactured in 1966In the 1960s, Walther produced the PPK-L, which was a light-weight variant of the PPK. The PPK-L differed from the standard, all steel PPK in that it had an frame. These were only chambered in 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP) and.22 LR because of the increase in felt recoil from the lighter weight of the gun.
All other features of the postwar production PPK (brown plastic grips with Walther banner, high polished blue finish, lanyard loop, loaded chamber indicator, 7+1 magazine capacity and overall length) were the same on the PPK-L. PP Super First marketed in 1972, this was an all-steel variant of the PP chambered for the cartridge. Designed as a police service pistol, it was a blowback operated, double-action pistol with an external slide-stop lever and a firing-pin safety. A manual decocker lever was on the left side of the slide; when pushed down, it locked the firing pin and released the hammer. When the was chosen as the standard service round by most of the German police forces, the experimental 9mm Ultra round fell into disuse. Only about 2,000 PP Super pistols were sold to German police forces in the 1970s, and lack of sales caused Walther to withdraw the PP Super from their catalogue in 1979. PPK/E Walther PPK/ETypeSemi-automatic pistolProduction historyDesigned2000ManufacturerSpecificationsLength155 mm (6.1 in)length83 mm (3.3 in)Width30 mm (1.2 in)Height113 mm (4.4 in),.32 ACP, and.380 ACPStraight blowbackSightsFixed, rear notch and front bladeAt the 2000 Internationale Waffen-Ausstellung (—International Weapons Exhibition) in, Walther announced a new PPK variant designated as the PPK/E.
The PPK/E resembles the PPK/S and has a blue steel finish; it is manufactured under license by in Hungary. Despite the resemblance between the two, certain PP-PPK-PPK/S parts, such as magazines, are not interchangeable with the PPK/E. Official factory photographs do not refer to the pistol's Hungarian origins. Instead, the traditional Walther legend ('Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do.'
) is stamped on the left side of the slide. The PPK/E is offered in,.32 ACP, and.380 ACP calibers. A Stainless PPK made under License by Ranger Arms Manufacturing Walther's original factory was located in in the ' (state) of. As that was occupied by the following World War II, Walther fled to, where they established a new factory in. For several years following the war, the Allied powers forbade any manufacture of weapons in Germany. As a result, in 1952, Walther licensed production of the PP series pistols to a French company, also known as.
Manurhin made the parts but the pistol was assembled either at (marked 'Made in France') or by Walther in Ulm (marked 'Made in West Germany' and having German proof-marks). The French company continued to manufacture the PP series until 1986.In 1978, of was licensed to manufacture the PPK and PPK/S; this version was distributed by of. Ranger made versions of the PPK/S in both blued and stainless steel and chambered in.380 ACP and only made copies chambered in.32 ACP from 1997 to 1999.
This license was eventually canceled in 1999. Walther USA briefly made PPKs and PPK/Ss in Springfield, Massachusetts. From 2002, (S&W) began manufacturing the PPK and PPK/S under license at their plant in Houlton, Maine until 2013. In February 2009, S&W issued a recall for PPKs it manufactured for a defect in the hammer block safety. In 2018 Walther Arms began producing them again at their new US manufacturing plant in Fort Smith, Arkansas and new ones are being shipped as of March 2019.Users.:.: PP variant.: PP variant.: PP variant.: PP variant.: PP variant.: PPK variant. Danish police used a 7.65mm version.: A close copy was produced after.: All Walther PPs and variants were produced after by until 1986.: PPK variant.: A close copy was produced locally after. A Hungarian version called the PA-63 is still in service.: PPK variant is used by (Kopaska) tactical diver group and (Kopassus) special forces group.: PP variant.: PP variant.: PP variant.: (origin).: PP variant.
PP used by Norwegian Police, PP and PPK used by Norwegian Armed Forces.: A was produced locally after.: PP variant.: PP variant.: Walther PP in use by Swedish police until early-mid 2000s.: PPK variant. Used by pilots of the and various police forces.: PP variant.: A close copy Kirikkale in 7.65 and 9mm was produced locally after.: Police Service of Northern Ireland replaced by Ruger Speed 6 and the - L66A1.22 LR and L47A1 7.65mm Walther PP.: Produced locally and used by various police forces. Issued the stainless PPK/S as a backup gun and each pistol had the agency logo engraved on the slide.See also.Notes.
SOLD FOR: $4,025.00LSB#: 171104MS46Make: This pistol was manufactured under license to Walther by Interarms of VirginiaModel: PPK/S Limited Collector SeriesSerial Number: C215 (of 500)Year of Manufacture: circa 1987 (Blue Book of Gun Values gives this as the last date of manufacture.)Caliber:.380 A.C.P. (9mm Kurz)Action Type: Single or Double Action Semi-Auto with 7 Round Removable MagazineMarkings: The left side of the slide is marked with the Walther “Banner” logo over “MADE IN U.S.A.”, and “UNDER LICENSE OF / CARL WALTHER WAFFENFABRIK ULM/DO. / Modell PPK/S Cal.
9mm kurz/.380ACP”. The right side of the slide is marked with “Interarms / Alexandria, Virginia”. The right side of the frame behind the trigger is marked “C215”.
The right side of the barrel at the port is marked “VA” in a box. The gun is elaborately engraved with a floral motif: please see our pictures!Barrel Length: 3 ¼”Sights / Optics: The front sight is a low-profile blade with a white dot in its rear face that is fixed to the slide.
The rear sight is a square notch with a square white dot below the notch, and is dovetailed into the slide. The top of the slide is serrated to reduce glare.Stock Configuration & Condition: The grips are laminated rosewood with a slight thumbrest in each grip and marked with a Walther “Banner” logo across the tops of the grips. Below the thumbrests, the grips are elaborately engraved in floral patterns. There are no handling marks in the grips. The grips fit the grip frame well. The grips rate in about Excellent overall condition.Type of Finish: The finish is gold plated.Finish Originality: All OriginalBore Condition: The bore is bright and the rifling is sharp. There is no erosion in the bore.
There is no evidence in the bore or on the breechface that this pistol has ever been fired outside the factory.Overall Condition: This handgun retains about 99+% of its metal finish. The only marks we could find were some light tool marks under the finish around the hammer pin on the right side of the frame that is normally covered by the grip. The grip screw is sharp and the markings are clear. Overall, this handgun rates in about Mint condition.Mechanics: The action functions correctly. The double action trigger pull is a little stiff and the single action pull has a small amount of creep.
This pistol has a decocker. We did not fire this handgun. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements.Box, Paperwork & Accessories: This pistol comes with two 7 round gold-plated magazines, a leather covered presentation case and paperwork.
The left sides of the magazines are marked with a Walther Banner logo and “Cal. 380 ACP” and on the right sides with a Walther Banner logo and “Cal. One of the magazines has a black plastic finger extension floorplate and the other magazine has a gold plated flat floorplate.
They are both in Excellent condition. The case is marked on the lid with a Walther banner logo in gold, and the back side of the bottom section is marked “GENUINE LEATHER”. The inside of the lid has a brass colored plaque marked with an Interarms logo and “PPKS AMERICAN / Limited Collector’s Series / Number / C215 of 500”.
The outside of the case is covered in dark brown leather with dark felt covering its bottom surface, and the inside is lined with dark blue velvet, with the bottom of the case fitted for this pistol and a spare magazine. The outside of the case shows a few light handling marks with a scratch on the front lower front face.
The inside of the case shows light wear on the edges of the lining. The case is in about Fine condition. The paperwork is a proclamation by Interarms that this pistol is hand engraved, gold plated and produced as a limited run of 500 PPK/S pistols to honor their association with Walther and the birth of their new production facilities.Our Assessment: Because of the Gun Control Act of 1968, importation of the Walther PPK was disallowed, and Walther enlarged the pistol to the PPK/S model to get around the restrictions. The PPK/S was made by Walter in the 70’s and then by license to Walter by Interarms in the 1980’s and 90’s, and later by Smith & Wesson. This is a beautiful hand engraved and gold plated PPK/S American made by Interarms under license to Walther. It was made to commemorate Interarms’ long association with Walther and the birth of their new production facilities used to manufacture the PPK/S pistols here in America. This pistol comes with a leather covered presentation case and two gold plated magazines and appears unfired since it left the factory.
The grips are beautiful carved laminated rosewood. This is a beautiful pistol that anyone with an appreciation for fine weapons will want to add to their collection. Lock, Stock and Barrel Investments specializes in the acquisition and sale of firearms, firearms paraphernalia and military / war memorabilia. We acquire items of any vintage and any condition from estates for any liquidation purpose. We will purchase or consign single items or entire collections. We pay fair market prices and have a history of achieving better than market prices for our consignors.
We are liscensed FFL dealers and adhere to all local and federal laws. Firearm Consingments are ALWAYS welcome.
Walther Serial Numbers By Year
New member looking for some help in identification of a Walther PPK.32 auto.I've hit a ton of websites trying to identify this pistol, and while I've found a lot of info, I can't find a picture like it.Has some holster wear on slide, but other than that, pretty clean with original bluing.The serial number is 383199P, and is also stamped 'ac' under the serial on the slide, but not by the handle. There is nothing on the left or right side giving any information as to make, model, caliber, locations, anything.
I've also taken it down and see no factory marking anywhere in the slide. Does have nice looking checkered grips with the Walther flag at the top. I'm more curious about identification than value, but value would be nice also.Story from Dad was that it was pre-war and has been in known possession of the family since the late 40's or early 50s. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Proof and Police MarksModel PP and PPK pistols are found with a variety of markings.
Some of these are merely factory serial numbers and proof marks indicating that the gun has functioned safely when fired with high pressure cartridges.In addition to the serial number and proof marks, Model PP and PPK will often be found with Nazi party abbreviations and insignia. Still others will be found with Army acceptance marks in the form of an eagle, Swastika, and Waffenamt numbers. The Waffenamt mark indicates that the gun has been accepted by the government inspector at the plant. The German GI usually referred to this ever present mark as the 'Pleitegeir' which means the 'Bankrupt Vulture.'
Crown over N is a German pre-war proof mark used before April 1, 1940. 'N' indicates that the gun has been proofed with 'nitro' or smokeless powder. Foun on early PP and PPK's.In April of 1940 the Germans replaced the crown over N proof mark wiht the eagle over 'N'. PP and PPK's carried this proof mark after April 1, 1940.Post-war PP and PPK's carry the new eagle over N, indicating that the gun was proofed for nitro or smokeless powder.Post-war PP and PPK's manufactured at Ulm by Walther for commercial sale carry the antler proof mark of the Ulm proof house. The year of the proof test is also indicated i.e. 68 means 1968.
There are other proof houses, but these have different symbols such as a bear for Berlin, a horse for Hanover, an oak leaf for Kiel, and a shield for Munchen.The police acceptance mark is similar to the Army mark but the swastika was replaced by a cross and sub-letter C, F, L, or K.Eagle over WaA359 is the most common Waffenamt pistol stamp. It is found on all Walther PP's and PPK's accepted by the military. Another version of the 'Pleitegeirer' shows the eagle over 359.The RZM insignia on the left is found engraved on the slides of early PPK's. It is found on the left hand side of the slide between the Mod PPK and the slide serrations.The NSKKJ (Nationalsozialistisches Kraftfahrkorps) was the party branch entrusted with transport of party and military supplies. Their pistols were generally Model PP's wht NSKK insignia engraved on the left side of the slide but some PPK's have been noted with the NSKK insignia on the right side of the slide.SA der NSDAP Gruppe Mitte Nazi SA sections of the NSDAP were issued Model PP pistols in the prewar era. These pistols were generally engraved on the front of teh grip strap as shown.
The SA was divided into 28 areas so the Gruppe (group) name will vary.RFV 13311WPDM 1337RRZRJDRP. Hello,Your pistol was manufactured in late 1945, close to war's end. It really should have wood grips to be correct, but that does not hurt the value, as alot of officers would change out grips. As the other members pointed out, Walther started using a code of AC on all their weapons.
Mauser was byf & so on. The late JP Sauer 38h pistols dropped everything, except for the cal marking. I suppose all of them were afraid of Neurenberg? Most of these late war pistols are mismatched, meaning the slide number did not match the frame. There are collectors seeking these late war pistols & your's being in such fine condition should fetch 12-15 hundred.
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Oh yes I forgot, on the spline of the magazine you should see a small W. That signifies soft metal and will be only found on these late war pistols, PPKs included. Hope this helps ya?Kind RegardsDanny.
I do not know how you feel about it, but you were a male in your last earthly incarnation.
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Ok, I guess all these postings still leave me with questions. Sounds like there's still a discrepancy on when this pistol was made, late war or post war. Are serial numbers researchable. I've read some places that they aren't, but Danny seems quite specific about manufacture time.Another question is that this is referred to as mismatched, or pieced together pistol. What does that mean?
Slide and frame have matching serial number, but the frame does not have the 'ac' under the number. Where would this gun have been manufactured? Germany, France,????Everyone seems to have their own opinion to pricing.
I'll never sell, as this piece is a family hand me down, having been my grandfather's, father's, and now mine.so more curious for insurance purposes.Thanks again for the input. OK, sorry if we have you confused. The parts of this pistol were made during the war, just before Germany surrendered. These parts were numbered and sitting in parts bins, ready to be assembled and test fired.
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At the end of the war the US forces took control of the factory. The GIs wanted souvenir pistols, so they slipped the workers a pack of cigarettes or a few candy bars, and the workers assembled them from the parts bins. No attention was paid to trying to grab the matching slide from a slide bin to make a matching pistol. The Germans knew it was wrong, but the GIs neither knew nor cared about matching parts, so they were just slapped together with random parts.
And this satisfied the GIs. None of these were factory inspected or test fired. So that's what you have, a GI souvenir from a defunct non-operating factory. They are of some small interest to knowledgable collectors, but have no military history, as they were never issued. Their low prices reflect this diminished collectibility.
These are often palmed off on novice buyers as military Walthers at inflated prices. Wonder that is a war trophy period.
When the plant was captured, the GIs found crates of assembled P-38's and the PPs & PPKs. The Army was in such deserpate need of weapons they did not care if they matched or not. They just wanted something to arm their men with and in a hurry. Your opinion is well recognized about the troops having getting some put together, however the pistol in question has both the frame & serial # matching which is odd for a late war unit. Like toy soldier by eminem free mp3 download. Thats why I gave the apprasial of the amount.
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Before the plant was captured all records of serial numbers were destroyed. In reality the numbers were based on the PP in 1929 and the PPK in 1931. Most of the prewar numbers on both handguns were in the same proximity with numbers only a few thousand apart. However at the beginning of WW2 there was a bigger demand for the PP and thats when the numbers showed the difference of production for the PPK.
Remember the PP held one more round than the PPK also.Kind RegardsDanny.The Firearms Forum is on online community for all gun enthusiasts. Join us to discuss firearms of all kinds, gun accessories, legal issues and more. Membership is free and we welcome all types of shooters, whether you're a novice or a pro.
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Hi all, I need some advice and expertise from the community.I have done a fair bit of research on Interams version of the Walther PPK/S, and feel like I have a fair understanding of them except for how to determine if it is a model that was imported or if it was one of the ones produced and assembled in America. I have the opportunity to buy one, and while it's not a big deal if it's an American made one I am curious to know before I purchase it. The photo that's attached isn't the gun in question but all the markings on this one are the same as the other PPK/S. View QuoteWell there is some irony there, as you are right not to trust the stamp, and you've more or less hit the nail on the head.Walther's original factory was located in Zella-Mehlis. However when the Soviets invaded Germany toward the ned of WWII, Walther moved the tooling west and established a new factory in Ulm Germany. Unfortunately for Walther, after WWII, the Allied powers forbade any manufacture of weapons in Germany until the restrictions were finally lifted on May 5, 1955.
As a result, in 1952, Walther licensed production of the PP series (PP and PPK) pistols to a French company, Manufacture de Machines du Haut-Rhin, also known as Manurhin. This French company continued to manufacture the PP series until 1989, using steel forgings shipped from Walther in Germany, but milled, polished, roll marked, finished, inspected and proofed by Manuhrin in France.However when Germany was again able to start making small arms, Manurhin continued making the PP series pistols, but they also started sending complete pistols to Walther in Ulm Germany. However the slides on thee were left soft, unroll marked and in the white.
Once Walther received these pistols, they roll marked the slides, hardened the slides through an induction process, and then blued them. These Walther roll marked and finished slides were then assembled on the Manurhin produced and finished frames and then sold as German Walthers. West German law allowed them to be sold as German made pistols as they were roll marked, assembled and proofed in Germany.Some folks argue that the German Walthers are superior due to the final assembly and inspection in Germany, but on the other hand no one ever says anything bad about the quality of the Manuhrin pistols. Given the induction hardening and differences in polish and the effects each have on the bluing, the Walther slides don't exactly match the finish on the Manuhrin frames, and it's a pretty good indicator even if you have not yet dated the weapon based on a serial number.In 1984, Walther started making entire PPK pistols in 7.65mm in West Germany, and by 1986 they were making the PP, PPK & PPK/S in both 7.65 & 9mmK.
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